600m, delaying the winding-up and bad corporate structure - actions!

From Michael Simpson's updates, we know that around 600m GBP of Kaupthing Singer and Friedlander (IOM)'s 840m GBP deposits are held in London. Combined with the 100m GBP already under Michael Simpson's control and the bank's supposedly strong loan book, this should be enough to keep the bank running normally.

Until recently I was mostly indifferent to the bank being wound up but I've now realised that winding up would be very bad, even for depositors like me with under 50,000 GBP. An article I read somewhere included a quotation, probably from someone on this site, which dismissed the IOM DCS as "little more than a whiparound on Douglas high street", which I think is fairly accurate.

So, as far as I see it, there are two main actions needed now, which must happen in parallel:

  • Recover the 600m GBP - UK political pressure: Mike Simpson's update today says that the court documents appointing Ernst and Young as administrators of KSF UK were "sealed", and that from his discussions with Ernst and Young, anything other than UK Kaupthing Edge deposits are of "secondary importance". There's no point in complaining to Ernst and Young about this--they have to work within the terms of the court order, so UK political pressure is needed here.
  • Apply pressure on IOM FSC: Michael Simpson's update today states that as he's not a "petitioner", he can't influence the outcome of the hearing on Friday. I don't fully understand that as surely his work and negotiations will form the main decision-making material for the hearing, but whatever--I'm not a lawyer. I think the key thing is that we need to apply pressure to IOM FSC for allowing KSF IOM to conduct itself as a KSF UK subsidiary when it officially wasn't. This is a massive blunder on the part of the IOM FSC. Had KSF IOM been a KSF UK subsidiary, the UK government would almost certainly have protected KSF IOM deposits in much the same way as they did for Bradford and Bingley offshore deposits and so on.

So these activities have to be done in parallel. IOM FSC must realise that getting the 600m GBP back would allow the bank to continue operating normally (albeit requiring some further guarantee or change of ownership to prevent a run once it's set up again). So, as a "petitioner", IOM FSC must request that the winding up hearing is adjourned.

How can we help make this happen? bblair and expat, what's the most effective way of helping?

As a slight aside, is anyone else infuriated with Peter Karran for withdrawing his questions about KSF IOM at tomorrow's Tynwald meeting? His questions (for example asking why IOM FSC members were allowed to be on KSF IOM's board, when there's clearly a massive conflict of interest) were important. I know Allan Bell is seen as an ally of depositors, but wanting to avoid work doesn't really impress me very much. Those questions were important, and Peter Karran should be ashamed of himself.

ALLYOURBASE

its a good analysis bblair please resp0nd i am getting press all over me here
publicity is always good though soory this is short

Recover the 600m GBP - UK political pressure:

"Recover the 600m GBP - UK political pressure: Mike Simpson's update today says that the court documents appointing Ernst and Young as administrators of KSF UK were "sealed", and that from his discussions with Ernst and Young, anything other than UK Kaupthing Edge deposits are of "secondary importance". There's no point in complaining to Ernst and Young about this--they have to work within the terms of the court order, so UK political pressure is needed here."

Yes: that's why you must send pithy and cogent questions to the Treasury Select Committee.

Select Committees are the rottweilers and pit-bulls of parliament. Questions there that are falteringly answered go on to be political hot potatoes. That is the best forum we have. Go for it:

See http://www.ksfiomdepositors.netgenius.co.uk/?q=node/308 on this very forum. It has received one answer only, yet this is the most obvious political way forward...

Questions posted

Minotaur - great suggestion. I've sent my questions and posted them on that thread. I encourage others to do the same. It might be too little too late, but it might help.

political pressure

Could we get in touch with nick robinson of bbc. He has access at high levels to the government and do 2 things

1 inform him of our position
and
2 draw his attention to the fact the documents were sealed re ksfuk. Could this be our smoking gun.

All political journalists want a scoop and after the Blair naughties re Iraq could this be our in at the top table. If nothing else it publicises our position.

I agree with post at top

Priorities should be delay the windup, and get the 600 mil. From there all manner of things are possible. Including the acquisition of the KSF IoM sub.

Re Windup: FSC is in control of the wind up decision and we have made our views clear to them. I think there are forces pushing in the other direction and I guess the court will decide on Oct 24th. If we don't get assurances (or even clarification) from FSC on its position on this issue tomorrow, it may be that this forum should take legal action to request deferal of the wind up.

Getting the 600 mil. I have no reason to believe that Mike Simpson will not pursue all channels to secure these assets. His efforts will be slowed no doubt by KSF UK and their own administrator who have no obligation to act in anyones interest except their own.

Blair

Hi

All that is happening is delaying tactics to get to Friday when the bank WILL BE would up. Michael Simpson could not unwrap a mars bas never mind unwrap the aseets.

I have no confidence that anything is happening other than the right words on the radio/newspapers and Friday will come and thats it.

If someone did take over there will be Northern Rock situaton with everyone trying to be re united with their hard earned (me included) so why should another bank take over ?

Not optimistic at all and I have £21,000.00

Stay positive

I'm normally extremely pessimistic so I can't quite believe I'm saying this, but we have to stay positive. And I don't mean being staying positive in a state of denial, but we do have to at least offer our help to expat and the others.

expat has had a meeting with Allan Bell, the Treasury Minister, and this is a great way to raise our concerns. If we could arrange another meeting perhaps we could persuade Allan Bell to delay the winding up.

All I want to know is what we can do to help. I have over 21,000 GBP in KSF IOM, and winding it up almost certainly means a massive delay before any money is returned.

did you know that in max law

did you know that in max law a comapany in liquidation can be taken out of liquidation?
are you aware of the implications and details, on this site alone, of the lanbanski 2008 order?
are you aware of the iTV border tv tonight and tony browns statement
may i suggest that you track those points for BETTER UNDERSTANING OF THE SITUATION

sorry to be cryptic but we do keeptrying to exlain that there are at least 5 potential buyers as well

thank you

did you know that .....

on what grounds can it be taken out of liquidation ?
what are the impications of the Lansbanki 2008 order ?

Did you know that

The following is an extract from the Isle of Man companies act

194 Power to stay winding up
(1) The court may at any time after an order for winding up, on the application either of the
liquidator, or the official receiver, or any creditor or contributory, and on proof to the
satisfaction of the court that all proceedings in relation to the winding up ought to be stayed,
make an order staying the proceedings, either altogether or for a limited time, on such terms
and conditions as the court thinks fit.
(2) On any application under this section the court may, before making an order, require
the official receiver to furnish to the court a report with respect to any facts or matters which
are in his opinion relevant to the application.

This clearly states that once a liquidation has been commenced it can be suspended or even stopped all together.

I am not an expert in Manx law but in the Isle of Man there is no equivalent to the UK's administration. So for now the Isle of Man company is in "provisional liquidation" this in a way is equivalent to administration in the UK in that it is the main aim of the provisional liquidator to protect the assets of the company, pending any further instructions from the court.

The liquidation could be reversed, once started, if for example the funds were released from the UK as obviously that would be mean there was significant chance of selling on the depositor base, for example.

I'm sure others could explain better than me but I hope that helps.

Reverse liquidation?

Thanks for digging out this surprising information Ally, I guess it means there's always the chance of a reversal and decisions are not necessarily irreversible? I can't help thinking though that giveusbackourfunds could have a point: for my mind the Allan Bell radio broadcast yesterday sounded less than open with regard to regaining the 600M; then there is the apparent odd behaviour of Mr Jonathan Smalley presenting his document; and finally the FSC is still deferring its decision...

thanks for the detail Ally

thanks for the detail Ally thats what we discoverd

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